Speaker 1: From the city of presidents, it’s the all about Quincy podcast. This is your host, John Melley. Join me as we explore the history, hidden gems and highlight the businesses with great stories that I’ll tell the tale why Quincy, Massachusetts is a great place to live. Hey, there it’s John. Thanks for spending some time with me today. I do appreciate it. And welcome to episode four of the all about Quincy podcast.

I have a true confession. I totally spaced on this episode. I had recorded this back at the end of June, with Alexandra Elliott and Ed Fitzgerald, both from the Quincy historical society. And, you ever have a project that you start and you, you get distracted and then you forget all about it. And then you suddenly have that jolting feeling. You sit upright and that adrenaline dump and you go, oh my gosh, I forgot all about that. And then you forget about it again. And then you realize you’ve blown it twice and then you get embarrassed. So you procrastinate on it. Yeah, that’s what I did with this episode, Alexandra Elliot. And I started corresponding, I think back in may to get this episode recorded and we recorded it back at the end of June. And so it’s been a couple months that this interview with the kind folks at the Quincy historical society has been sitting, waiting to be published. And so my public apology to Ed Fitzgerald and Alexandra Elliott at the Quincy historical society for kind of messing this up, I hope you’ll forgive me. I hope you’ll enjoy it. And if you’ve got any comments or feedback, please go to all about Quincy podcast.com. And let me know your thoughts now without any further delay, let’s listen to my conversation With Ed & Alexandra.

Speaker 2: Well, as I said, at the beginning of the program, I have some guests from the Quincy historical society, and I am very excited about today’s show. My guests today are Edward Fitzgerald and Alexandra Elliott. And Edward is the executive director and Alexandra is the curator for the Quincy historical society. And, you folks have been very busy reopening after the COVID pandemic. And, we worked hard to get this episode scheduled. So I want to thank you both for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with me today. Absolutely happy to be here. Thanks for having us. I was thinking that this, the Quincy historical society of all the historical societies in the country has got to be one of the Primo historical societies to be a part of.

Speaker 3: We certainly think so Quincy is very unique in that it, it just has such a tremendous width and breadth of topics that you can talk about in terms of the history of the, of the city, back all the way to, you know, the revolutionary period and before that, and then all the way up through world war II and to today as well.

Speaker 2: And how did you get started with the society I

Speaker 4: Kind of fell into it, I suppose, is the answer. I was, I had an academic background. I had done some teaching, and some freelance editorial work and writing and things like that and worked in nonprofits, and at family ties to Quincy and we were back here and the time he just turned to be turned out to be right. And, they were looking for somebody and I was looking for something along these lines and it happened, and I was happy because I was interested in the topic and it’s been a very interesting, it’s been a good thing to be doing Alexandra. How about yourself I kind

Speaker 3: Of fell into it a little bit too. I got started back in 2017. I was brought on to help out with a Howard Johnson special exhibit that was going up. And then ed decided that we worked well together. And so brought me on, on a more permanent basis. And I’ve been here ever since then. It’s been great. There’s never a dull moment, honestly.

Speaker 2: All right. Especially the last year and a half. Right. Tell me about the history of the historical society at you sent over some information before this conversation and it’s, I don’t know how it fits into the scheme of how old relative, historical societies are in the country, but it was founded in 1893 by some pretty prominent folks. If you tell us about that,

Speaker 4: It’s not by any stretch. One of the oldest societies, there are some real granddaddy old societies, like the Oracle society and Massachusetts historical society that both of which have more than a century on us. Wow. But there was a big movement in kind of historical recognition and an historical concern in the 1890s. And I think the society kind of comes out of that and you’re right. I mean, they had some, very, very prominent people, including our first president who was first president of the society was Charles Francis Adams, the second from those Francis Adams Jr. And then, his brother Brooks Adams was president of the society for 20 years in the early part of the 20th century. but then a lot of, a lot of just community people came together to do it as well. It was, it’s interesting because it was, it looks like it was a pretty democratic, small D democratic society all along. There was no, no, you had to be invited to join or you had to prove your pedigree or anything like that. Anybody who was interested, they were more than happy to have joined right from the start. the secretary and the, well, the treasurer and the president were all guys to start with, but there were women in prominent roles pretty, really from the star too. So there’s some very nice things about it. This and this there’s some good background there.

Speaker 2: You said something at the beginning of the history of this thing, you said that there was a sense that it was important to create a historical society. What was the backdrop to that thinking I think it’s several things.

Speaker 4: I think it’s a period of great change obviously for, for America. And in many ways, Quincy had turned into a city to adopt the city form of government five years earlier in 1888, our population wasn’t huge, but it was kind of clear. We were becoming a city and I would that all sorts of changes. We’re gonna, we’re going to take place, also to be quite Frank immigration and the changing demographics of the town, I think made them mid people, particularly people who were of the old Yankee stock, the people like Charles Francis Adams, interested in preserving the history, of their time. So a lot of the impulse I think, was to preserve the history of their time, but they didn’t get stuck in that. I mean, and there were also, by 1893, the major ethnic group, other than English Anglo-Saxon Protestant, people would have been the Irish. And there, there were Irish people in fairly important positions in the society from the star too, but it’s, it’s a kind of combined push poll in a way that, there’s a kind of fear of what’s the things are changing and, oh my God, we’re going to save things which is maybe not the best motive, but there’s also the motive of we’ve got to do, we’ve got to save what is best for the future, which is the good motive.

Speaker 2: I think a lot of what you described is understandable. I think we’re going through similar time now in our history. So I can see that what is the Quincy historical society’s mission

Speaker 3: It is to preserve as much of Quincy history as possible in that being, you know, what is happening, in recent years. And then also going back as far as, you know, Quincy would exist. We have, first of all, our museum, currently we’re in the Adams academy building our beautiful building here on Adam street. And we have a museum that spans from the earliest days before you had European settlement. So dealing with some of the native American history, but then going up through the 20th century as well. and so that’s a lot of crown to cover in a fairly small space. You

Speaker 2: Had sent over a picture of the historical societies building, and it looks a lot like the Thomas Crane public library was designed by the same architect.

Speaker 3: It’s not the same architect, but it is the same, or it’s a similar architectural style. so our building is in the Gothic revival style. It was done by correct me if I’m wrong, ed, this is going to be William Ware and, Henry van brunt, I think it has certainly been brunt it’s and yeah, so it’s wherein van brunt, who designed the building and it’s

Speaker 2: Purposes, we’ll call him Hank.

Speaker 3: but what’s weird or what’s kind of interesting about the building is that usually you’ll see the, the granite as the main building material, but instead our building uses it as the embellishment, as the trim, which is quite interesting, cause it’s a very pretty building, but it’s got the granite on the, as the accent piece instead of the brick,

Speaker 2: I wouldn’t have observed that, but that’s cool. John Adams

Speaker 4: Had specified in the deeds to create the, the school that this was, that would be a built a Quincy stone, Quincy granite. Okay. The crane office is Henry Hudson Richardson. The great American architect. This building is about 10 years earlier. This was opened in 1872. The crane opened in 1882.

Speaker 2: Oh, interesting. Yeah. So tell me about some of the programs that the historical society

Speaker 3: Typically during a year, you know, during a regular year, we would have usually monthly, either guest speakers or special programming talking about a myriad of different topics. Our summer ones tend to be a little bit lighter, fair. We have a fun pop culture series that we usually run during the summer having to do with like a lot of music or other pop culture topics that are related to Quincy during the pandemic, we started transitioning to doing more virtual programs over zoom and the like, and we had a couple really popular ones. we did a reprise of a 2019 program that we had that was featuring the experience of Quincy during the 1918 influenza pandemic feature, featuring some unique or excuse me, original research that we had done back then before we knew what was coming down the pike. Right. so of course people were very interested to kind of see, okay, so how did Quincy deal with this in the past And then we also did one about another disease, more death and disease, about yellow fever and how that wants to American culture. And then we did a much more lighthearted, one about the various ad campaigns done by Howard Johnson over the years. Oh, that’s very popular. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That’s very cool. It was always interesting to hear from my perspective, people talking about the COVID pandemic in terms of, in these unprecedented times and they weren’t unprecedented, they’re unprecedented in our lifetime, but, obviously we’ve been through something like this before, but I, I wondered many times how we would have fared without the technology that we have available to us today. restaurants, where they switched very quickly to take out orders, through various apps and delivery services and, and, you know, I have a lot of people were able to work remotely. Right. And so I just wonder how everything would, I mean, you can only speculate, but you just wonder how different would it have been if we did not have the technology today that we have today,

Speaker 3: It undoubtedly would have been a much harder. Yeah,

Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah. Those sounded like interesting. Thanks. My, I was telling Alexander and I had a call before this recording session and my dad grew up in Milton and my grandfather actually knew Howard Johnson. My grandfather was treasurer at the Milton cooperative savings bank, I think. And actually I’m looking at the date that the society was founded and he was born in 1893, my grandfather. So, it’s interesting to hear, some of these names in history and there are some ties. Yeah. I don’t know if I told you this, but if you’re familiar with Milton and the Forbes museum at all. Yeah, my great, great grand uncle is Thomas Murdoch or was Thomas Murdoch who built the Lincoln replica cabin Oh yeah. Yeah. My, my grandmother, the woman who married my grandfather was just discussing Quinn. What are you doing, buddy Get out of there.

Speaker 2: Hold on. He’s tearing a paperback. That’s Quinn the Jakabee, or is a boy he’s free to handle it. Yeah. Well he’s the mascot for the podcast. So we’ll have to post a picture at any rate. yeah. My grandmother was a Murdoch and Thomas Murdoch was her uncle. He, was hired by Forbes to, build a replica and he drove down there and a model T and went and, took measurements and took saplings tree samples and dirt samples so that he can match the color of the chinking between the logs in the cabin. So those, those are the things, but he was quite the character. My father said he got through many, a school report, writing stories about his uncle, Tom. He was, he was, he was, he was crazy when he had a cold, he would sip kerosene. He was going to burn it out. He lived into his night. He well into his nineties. I mean really Yeah. Yeah. He really did. Maybe there’s something to it. Maybe. I’m not sure I want to try it, but, so it’s, it’s, it’s kind of fun to hear all of this stuff and just know that my family has roots way back. And some of them actually knew some of these people that or discussing.

Speaker 3: That’s kind of one of my, one of my favorite parts of the job is whenever we do a program or, you know, post something on our blog or on our Facebook page and you just get people commenting or coming up to us and telling us stories about their family and what they remember in and what their family stories are. And that’s always really interesting to see what people say,

Speaker 2: No, you do stuff with the schools as well. The historical society. Yes. Yeah. Tell us about it. We have a

Speaker 4: Program in the third and fourth grade. And so we go into every class in the third and fourth grade and the Quincy public schools and the Quincy Catholic academy. We have a teacher, we have a certified, retired Quincy public school teacher, who, Susan, are you going, who is doing a terrific job so it’s really the several things that we do. You know, most of what we do, we’re, we’re more or less proud of, justly, but we are, the school program is really kind of our hallmark in a lot of ways. It’s, it’s been going now for well, over three decades goes, it’s been going in one form or another thing since the 1980s. And it is really important to, to the life of the community. And kids learn the basics about Quincy’s history at a time when they can kind of absorb it and use to hear adults say, remember taking the course. I remember or remember the, coming here as a kid. So it’s, I think a very valuable thing that we do.

Speaker 2: My wife is a fourth generation Quincy resident, and she went to elementary school at the Adams school. And, she recalls fondly. She says every year we would March on down the hill, down to the birthplaces get the tour. And all of that, the reason I moved to Quincy was because I got married to Ann. And, as I said earlier, in my conversation, my dad grew up in Milton. So we would come down to Milton to visit my grandparents. And I couldn’t tell you how many times we drove off and got off on the, it wasn’t the Bryant avenue exit, but the one prior to it and came out into east Milton square. And we drove by that brown sign on the highway that says next exit Adam’s historical and national historic site is something. And look at that, look at that, look at that.

Speaker 2: And then it wasn’t until I finally moved here. I said, wait a minute. This is so cool. There’s so much here. I have to go see this. And I hesitate to make this comment, but I wonder how many, you know, it’s like the tourist thing to do, but I wonder how many people, obviously, I think one of the good things about the school program is people who grow up here. It’s not like they never do the freedom trail. You know, you’re living in the Massachusetts area. You never do the freedom trail. This exposes kids at an early age to the history of where they’re living. And I think that’s great. It gets them, there gets to see all of this. It’s a good,

Speaker 4: Very good point. It does get them there. They get to go to the historic sites. They get to come here and it’s, it gives them a sense of who they are. It gives them an experience of a museum at an early age and everything else. So, yeah, it’s terrific.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Along those lines as well, you know, I’m not originally from Quincy, I’m from Dedham, which is, you know, not too far away, but I didn’t grow up in Quincy, but something that I’ve really been impressed by and have become very proud of it as kind of, you know, working here and have it been a sort of adopted community that I’m a part of. Yeah. It’s just how much history there is and how relevant Quincy is to so many different stories within American history. I’ve started saying every once in a while, you know, all roads lead to Quincy, just because of how many different parallels and tangents and it’s like, I’ll be listening to something completely unrelated and, oh my gosh, that’s related back to Quincy.

Speaker 2: yeah, I think I developed a sense of, appreciation for American art. When I was a kid, I grew up in Metro west, actually, when I was a kid before I moved, I lived in Lexington. Obviously we all know what happened there and we would go and see, my mom grew up in Arlington and, we would go and see on Patriot’s day, the reenactment of Paul Revere’s ride. And then if you got up really early, you could actually watch the battle on Lexington green. So from an early age, I had always had this keen interest in the American revolution. And I had to do a book report in school about Thomas Jefferson. And of course, you know, he wrote the declaration of independence and all that, but he, he had a team of people that he worked with Adams was one of them. And, and Benjamin Franklin, I think was another one.

Speaker 2: And to me it was always interesting and always sort of was partial to Jefferson. And then I w I know there was some artistic license taken with it, but I, and I have read the book by McCulloch as well, but I watched the Adams series on HBO and reading some of the other things. And you see some of the things that Thomas Jefferson was doing later on after John Adams was vice-president and then became president and the workings in the machinations of what he was doing, buying people to write stories in the newspapers and all that kind of stuff. And you, you look at it and you go, it actually gives you some hope. If you can look at history from the lungs longstanding, you go twice ever thus. Yup. Yup. There’s really nothing new.

Speaker 3: Yeah. No people do not change. People still behave the same way as that they always have. So

Speaker 4: There was McCulloch was experiencing himself. He was, he had started out to do a book on Jefferson and Adams with Adams as the sort of second banana being so caught up with Adams that he just jettison the entire Jefferson side of the project and did the full biography of Adams.

Speaker 2: I’m glad he did. I mean, yeah. I just, I learned so much from that book and I think, you know, I’ve got a bias because of where I live now, but I’m the writer of the Massachusetts state constitution and the us constitution. I mean, it’s just really, and, and, and that he was so well read in all of these different philosophies and student of history and governments throughout history, and that they took, and they analyzed what the failings were and they said, what can we do to make that not happen when they were trying to come up with what we have now And I just think it’s a remarkable accomplishment. And, I just think it’s, it’s really incredible that we’re here. And I was talking with Tim K hill, and one question I asked him, and I may, I’ll ask you the same. What do you think their reaction would be if they somehow materialized back today And they landed, you know, on the front steps of the birthplaces and they looked around and they saw my K’s and Sweeney’s and all that, but they saw that their homes were still there. What do you, how do you think they would react to Quincy today

Speaker 4: Yeah, you’re talking about Adams. The Adams.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And not just John Adams, but Abigail who was a huge influence on John and yeah. Yeah. Well, Adam’s

Speaker 4: Believe very much that he very much believed in that kind of 18th century sense that history moved, you know, that things were not static, that things were not eternal. So I don’t think it would be surprised. I mean, he might say, what the heck is that thing going by as a car I don’t think you’d be surprised that things were wildly different. So I think that would be okay. I mean, yeah. yeah, he would roll with the punches. I think he would, or roll with the times he was steadfast and a few things. And I think he would be surprised by a lot that happened. I think he still counted on a different kind of future for America than what actually took place. I think what actually took place is probably closer to what Hamilton thought, but I think he would accept that that’s what happened. And I think he would be looking for the sort of core principles that you kind of held to, which were the classics of honor and representation and honesty. And, you would probably judge today’s politicians by those same Steiner’s that he would have used 200 years.

Speaker 2: Yeah, probably right. Jim said that he thinks he probably would have been proud in that kind of what echoing, what you said in terms that history and things move forward and change. But he probably would have been proud that, they kept the homes. It was like, you know, oh my gosh, they’re still here. Tim Cahill said that John Adams sort of felt that history would forget him. Right. And that he would come back and see that, that those birthplaces in Pittsfield and all those are still there. It was like, oh my gosh, they actually took the trouble to keep this. he w he told me that his job was to work at the, for the, birthplaces and peas field. He was like a docent a 12 minute. Yeah. So he knew, well, he knows a lot

Speaker 4: About it. Yeah, he’s right. I mean, that, wouldn’t be the one thing that Adam’s, might’ve been surprised about is that they were still there because he, yeah, he did say monument, I’m never going to have any monuments or everybody else is going to get a monument, but not,

Speaker 2: Is there something about John and Abigail Adams and John Quincy Adams and for, I feel terrible. I never remember. Is it Louisa Yeah. Is there something about them that we would be surprised to learn that you could share with us

Speaker 3: My favorite thing to say about that kind of is just how human they are, who they are. You know, you have instances of them be happy, being prideful of them, having spats with each other as a couple, but, you know, navigating the world in a way that is extremely recognizable to anyone else living today. You know, they were no doubt, remarkable people that that’s not what I’m trying to say at all, that they weren’t, but they were also, you know, you read their diaries or their letters. And you’re just seeing things that are, you know, Abigail and John are having a spat over something. And she’s writing to a friend about it,

Speaker 2: The cap off the toothpaste.

Speaker 3: And it’s, they’re just, I personally really like it when a, someone who is as mythic as, you know, the founding fathers and B suddenly become, oh, no, they could be my neighbor. And they are very interesting for that reason.

Speaker 4: I just saw this is purely coincidence by sheer luck. I was trying to check out something else earlier today. And I opened a book on Abigail and Louise Lou, John Paul Nagle’s Adams women, and this anecdote about Louisa. He was saying, Louisa loved to read apparently. And she gets so totally absorbed in the book that you would forget everything else. And she’d sometimes forget that they had to go out to a party or a ball or something like that. But one time, apparently John Quincy was entertaining people at home. So you have all these guys sitting around, you know, this is probably some big political meeting or a dinner meeting that has political consequences. And Louisa has sort of set things up and gone upstairs to read. And it’s, they’re having their Brandy and cigars downstairs and talking over the great affairs of state and it’s getting darker and darker and darker.

Speaker 4: And we just get so wrapped up in the book that she forgets, what time it is or that they’re downstairs. And that she, that she doesn’t come down to light the candles. And the guy is of course, sitting there saying, well, that we’re not going to know if she realized that when she starts hearing something and she comes downstairs and all these guys, they’re still not letting the catalysts. They’re just trying to walk around in the dark and this tripping over everything. And apparently she said, I couldn’t get over to light the candles. Cause it was so busy life. It was just the most horrific thing I’ve ever read about her. Oh, that

Speaker 2: Is funny. It’s kind of like the modern day, the remotes under the seat cushion, if you just lift it up, you’d find it. That’s, that’s fun. Yeah. Down to earth. And human, I guess, is, is some of the interesting things that you see, talk about being human and human frailties. You learn that Thomas Jefferson was massively in debt and you have to say to yourself, you imagine what he would have been like if he had a credit card. That was something that was such a contradiction in the perception, I guess, that I had,

Speaker 3: Yeah, surely they would be on top of their finances. That, that can’t be

Speaker 2: Right. I guess he was constantly keeping a notebook of like, you know, what the temperature was and the day, you know, and the crops and when things came and all that kind of stuff. And I guess he kept a ledger of what he sped, but he just never managed to any of those things. I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to share any upcoming events that you want to talk about, that the Historical society may be putting on, or if people want to learn more about this historical society and how they can get involved or perhaps donate and support it, tell us, first of all, what you have upcoming and then tell us, about how people can get involved if they want.

Speaker 3: So I think the main thing that we have upcoming is that we are working on actually getting reopened. so the museum at this point is not quite open to visitors, but we’re hoping by mid July, we will be able to get our doors open to visitors again. So that’s the main thing that we’re preparing for. We also have a few blog articles coming up a little bit about some of the Asian, history and Quincy edge. I can’t remember exactly what you’re working on.

Speaker 4: We’re working on, a couple of things. It’s the 100th anniversary of the Saquon Vendetti trial, which took place in, in Dedham and people who aren’t familiar with that. Cause it’s getting it’s faded a little bit. It was, a very controversial case involving holdup and murder and a very controversial trial and a very controversial execution of the, of the two men with all sorts of political overtones. And they were a kind of a cause for people at the time. And really, for most of the years, since then really foundational to, kind of a lot of people’s feelings in the 20th century and even into this century. But there are Quinsy connections to that all the way through because of where the crime took place in Braintree, where a lot of the people that were involved with it. So we’re trying to tease out how, Quincy played a role in that really kind of earth shaking experience that, really shook the Commonwealth at the time. There, there were massive demonstrations and, and at the time of the execution, everything else, so they were, they were, presented by two Quincy based lawyers, as well as a more, you know, I could go go kind of go down in the weeds in here.

Speaker 2: I didn’t know that they were represented by Queensland attorneys. Yeah,

Speaker 4: Well it, I mean, it’s all kind of weaves in and out, so I just thought it would be interesting to kind of follow the strands of that to see not only what it tells us about the case, but also kind of what it tells us about Quincy it’s a 100 years ago, we’re kind of interested in filling in that gap. You know, we know a lot about the Adams generation. We know a lot really up to when we turned into a city, but we’re, we’re kind of, at least I’m kind of interested in working on what happened after we became a city. And when we became more like the modern Quincy, what is it that we can find out about that, that we’ve not really aware of We can

Speaker 2: Do that maybe in another episode. Yeah. If people want to learn more about how to get involved with this historical if people want to learn more about how to get involved with the Quincy historical society, what’s the best course of action for them to take.

Speaker 3: so the best way to get in touch with us is purely to either call or email us. And if you’re interested in getting involved or donating, et cetera, our email address is [email protected]. And then if you’re interested in seeing what we have coming up or what we are posting or researching about, we have two channels that are probably the best for that. And that would be first of all, our blog, which is Quincy history.org, backslash blog. And then also you can find us on Facebook at Quincy history, awesome. Quinsy

Speaker 2: History.org. All right. Is there anything either of you want to share with us before we say goodbye Well,

Speaker 3: I’ve got one fun, little anecdote kind of leading into the 4th of July. This is one of my sort of fun facts about the academy. And then also about some, one of the other famous founders from Quincy, having to John Hancock, the man of course, whose very large signature is on that piece of paper that we will be celebrating on the 4th of July. Right John Hancock was actually born on the property where the Adams academy is located today. Oh, I didn’t know that the house burned down. I think it was in the 1760s. No, just about the in 1758, I think, but yeah, around there that that house burned down. but fun fact in our collection, we actually have the front door key from that original parsonage in our collection. So that was on display. and that also explains why we have a bust of John Hancock in front of our building. Just

Speaker 2: Learn something. And hopefully the folks who listened to this episode will learn something as well at anything that you want to share before we say goodbye,

Speaker 4: Going back to John, John was, if people want to go and look at the 4th of July and what John says about it, John actually thought maybe it would be July 2nd, not July 4th, but, you can find in any of the books about him, his description of, how we should celebrate July 4th is spot on. He wants fireworks. He wants the whole bit and talking about him, being able to see in the future. We did pretty good with that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I’d heard that. Well, I want to thank you both very much for taking time out of your busy schedule with the reopening and everything

Speaker 1: Else that you have going on in research and sharing all that you have with us today. And I want to say the door is always open. If you have, have any upcoming events that you want to share and talk about on the podcast, please reach out. And, I hope to talk to you folks, we assume. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening. If you know someone who would be a great guest for the Alabama Quinsy podcast, we want to know about it. Business leaders, historians, unsung heroes, just go to the website at AllAboutQuincyPodcast.com. Fill out the contact form, tell us who you think would be a great guest and why. And we will try to make that happen. So until next week, thanks for listening.

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